[RBW] I rode the Clem Smith proto this morning

[James Warren]

It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.

-Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm still confused as to whether this will be sole as a frameset only. Did
this come up in conversation?

Also, what size did you ride?

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs
are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

[James Warren]

This visit today did not add any info about that; I didn't think of asking. I generally ride frames in the 60's, and on this I didn't have to raise the seatpost too much higher so I'm guessing it was the 59 cm. it fit me all right. Bosco bar. My typical Riv size is 64 or 65 in the 2-degree TT slope models, so 59 in the 6-degree slope models is pretty close.

I believe the Clem Protovelo I rode is the only one they have available right now, so I think right now it's one size must fit all.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

I'm still confused as to whether this will be sole as a frameset only. Did this come up in conversation?
Also, what size did you ride?
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone
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[Grant Petersen]

We want to get Clems complete, but cash flow never allows that these days,
so when they come (late '15?) they'll be available as framesets. There's
clearance for 55 with fender. Whenever we hit out target clearance, there's
always complaints (from us here, too!) that "well, too bad it won't fit the
next bigger one"). But the idea from the start was a fresh modern better
replacement for a mid-'80s all steel mtn bike...but uprighted and
urbanized and ugly, so it wouldn't attract thieves. It won't be
ugly---that was voted down, we just couldn't do it---but the "Clem Smith
Jr." name was part of the plain theme, and if a savvy thief is hunting for
Treks or is fooled by a Magna, he probably won't go for a CSJ, unless he's
super savvy. As for ugly, you can rattlecan it yourself...and the plan also
is to offer a limited number without decals but with a multiple alphabet so
you can name it yourself, which would make it easier still to ID at a flea
market or on Craigslist.
Mark and Jared and Brian picked the colors, and the samplCLems aren't the
right colors--those were quick and easy colors from the local powdercoater,
just to cover the metal.

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
I'm still confused as to whether this will be sole as a frameset only.
Did this come up in conversation?
Also, what size did you ride?

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs
are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

[Kieran J]

Amazing idea!

Grant, what's the biggest size Clems'll come in? Apologies if this has
already been answered elsewhere.

KJ

.and the plan also is to offer a limited number without decals but with a
multiple alphabet so you can name it yourself, which would make it easier
still to ID at a flea market or on Craigslist.

[Grant Petersen]

so far, 59...but that'll fit to pbh 95

Post by Kieran J
Amazing idea!
Grant, what's the biggest size Clems'll come in? Apologies if this has
already been answered elsewhere.
KJ

.and the plan also is to offer a limited number without decals but with a
multiple alphabet so you can name it yourself, which would make it easier
still to ID at a flea market or on Craigslist.
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['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Would a mid-80's PBH (really hard to measure but saddle height of 74-75cm
and I can S.O. an 84cm top-tube without hitting bone) put me on a 52 with
650b wheels?

Post by Grant Petersen
so far, 59...but that'll fit to pbh 95

Post by Kieran J
Amazing idea!
Grant, what's the biggest size Clems'll come in? Apologies if this has
already been answered elsewhere.
KJ

.and the plan also is to offer a limited number without decals but with
a multiple alphabet so you can name it yourself, which would make it easier
still to ID at a flea market or on Craigslist.
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[hsmitham]

So jealous. Clearance how much Clarence?

~Hugh

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

[James Warren]

Enough for 700x55.
It looked like the Hunqapillar in the Clearance department.


Sent from my iPhone

Post by hsmitham
So jealous. Clearance how much Clarence?
~Hugh

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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[j***@gmail.com]

It's got the clearance to run the interference.

-J

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs
are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

[Goshen Peter]

I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm afraid
on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs
are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I prefer a short top-tube but I'm worried about how much seatpost will be
showing. I don't mind a lot of seatpost if the top-tube is sloped like a
modern MTB. Riv's 2/6 degrees just won't work with a lot of seatpost.

Actually, my primary concern is that I already have a set of Rich Lesnik
built 700c wheels. I wouldn't mind having a set of 26" wheels built, and
in fact, that's part of my tentative plan, because I know I like them and
the tire selection for my riding style is good. 650B is an unknown
quantity and I'm afraid I might be limited by tire selection.


This is a 53.5 cm bike with the seatpost at the appropriate height for me.
It's hideous.

<Loading Image...>


And this is a 50cm.

<Loading Image...>

Post by Goshen Peter
I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm
afraid on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all
Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow!
Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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"RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[iamkeith]

Chris,

If that Trek is a 52, the seatpost actually looks just about right.....
for the era it was made. Funny how, once you know better, those old bikes
just don't seem right anymore. Another funny thing though is that a lot of
people still jack the post up even further when they take photos to share,
because they still think that the head-down, NORBA style looks authentic.
So it probably only looks hideous to you.

You and Peter now have me wondering, though, as we all three seem to be
about the same size (87 PBH, 75.5cm saddle height). I had been expecting
that the 59 was going to be a good fit for me, but I'm not so sure after
Grant's comments above. If either of you don't mind answering, I'm
curious:

How tall are you, overall? I'm just shy of 6'-2". I always describe my
self as freakishly long-torso/short inseam. Would be interesting if your
more "normal" proportions confirm this, though. I have three 60cm
Rivendells (Ram / Quickbeam / All Rounder) which all fit pretty darn well.
All have roughly the same (perfect) standover height, but progressively
longer top tubes. Unlike you, I like the longest best though

Another question: Do you find yourself "between" sizes on other Rivendell
models? I do. For instance, (not having tried either) I really think I'm
squarely between the 58 & 61 Atlantis, and the 54 & 58 Hunquapillar. Which
is part of why is I've been hoping that this bike was going to work: A
fat, 700c Rivendell in *MY* size.

FWIW, I don't think I'd worry about selection in 650b tires any more, given
the clearance that this model will likely have and the abundance of
mountain bike tires out there. I worry more about getting an
ideal fit..... but I fear, once again, that I'm going to fall in the
middle. Maybe the new Joe Appaloosa, if it has similar clearance and is
truly based on stretching the existing Sam Hillborne?????!!!!!!! A 58
Sam could be just about right......

Crossing my fingers.

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
I prefer a short top-tube but I'm worried about how much seatpost will be
showing. I don't mind a lot of seatpost if the top-tube is sloped like a
modern MTB. Riv's 2/6 degrees just won't work with a lot of seatpost.
Actually, my primary concern is that I already have a set of Rich Lesnik
built 700c wheels. I wouldn't mind having a set of 26" wheels built, and
in fact, that's part of my tentative plan, because I know I like them and
the tire selection for my riding style is good. 650B is an unknown
quantity and I'm afraid I might be limited by tire selection.
This is a 53.5 cm bike with the seatpost at the appropriate height for me.
It's hideous.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qlJY1HqdzIM/VHulu_VU0fI/AAAAAAAAADI/UNmEagrqRCQ/s1600/IMG_0774.JPG>
And this is a 50cm.
<https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QD61-BVYSYc/VHul3axTnEI/AAAAAAAAADQ/EwlkBuHBJSw/s1600/0000000000000%2BRockhopper%2B%284%29.JPG>

Post by Goshen Peter
I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm
afraid on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all
Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow!
Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Keith,

I'm just shy of 6' tall and I've always thought of myself as short legged
and longer torso'ed but I'm no longer sure that is accurate. My 1983 MTB
has a seat-tube of 57.5cm and a S.O. of 83 and I'm perfectly comfortable
riding it. In fact, I like how little seat-tube is showing and how easy it
is to get the handlebars high, even with a very short quill stem. Another
bike has about a 57cm seat-tube and 84cm S.O. and I can ride it but
wouldn't want to go any taller. My saddle height might be closer to 74cm
as I've recently realized that the one I set at 75cm has a lot of padding I
probably compress, My much flatter, less padded saddle sits at less than
75cm from the BB.

I've never ridden a Rivendell but I've looked at the geo charts of the
bikes I'm interested in:

I would ride a 54cm Hunqapillar. No question about it but the tires I
would run would put the S.O. higher than I would want for anything rougher
than smooth dirt. The next highest size would be way too big for me.

On the Atlantis I think the 56cm would be the best height for me but given
my experience with my other two bikes, I could ride a 58cm. The main
appeal of the Atlantis for me is the 26" wheels so that would preclude the
58cm, regardless.

I was thinking that maybe the 59cm Clem might be right for me but when
Grant said up to 95 PBH, I pretty much counted it out. That's a huge jump
and I'm thinking the 52 has to be the right size for me but it still sounds
too small.

The three framesets I'm currently considering are the Surly LHT (56cm/26"
wheels), Troll (18") and Ogre (18"). The LHT would be just the right size
although I might be able to stretch onto a 58cm. The Troll and Ogre will
have a ton of seat post showing but that's normal for that type of bike and
the extreme angle of the top-tube would make it very, very easy to get my
handlebars where I want them. Plus, I really like the way MTB's ride. I'm
currently riding a 26" wheel bike that is comparable in front-end geometry
to the 26" LHT and it's a little too twitchy for me, even with Big Apples.
I am coming off 3 weeks of riding an 83 MTB with 80 mm of Trail, though!
I test rode a stock 26" LHT and the 26" wheels with 1.5" tires were just
too twitchy for my tastes. I had thought maybe MTB bars and 55mm tires
would fix that but my current bike with similar front geometry shows me
that's not the case.

I'm always on the lookout for a medium (18") Troll, Ogre or Karate Monkey
with a saddle set at 75cm so I can see what the proportions look like and
just his weekend a guy posted a Troll that fit the bill. It doesn't look
too bad and given the Ogre has the same length seat tube, it should look
the same.

18" Troll with 75cm saddle height:



<Loading Image...>

Post by iamkeith
Chris,
If that Trek is a 52, the seatpost actually looks just about right.....
for the era it was made. Funny how, once you know better, those old bikes
just don't seem right anymore. Another funny thing though is that a lot of
people still jack the post up even further when they take photos to share,
because they still think that the head-down, NORBA style looks authentic.
So it probably only looks hideous to you.
You and Peter now have me wondering, though, as we all three seem to be
about the same size (87 PBH, 75.5cm saddle height). I had been expecting
that the 59 was going to be a good fit for me, but I'm not so sure after
Grant's comments above. If either of you don't mind answering, I'm
How tall are you, overall? I'm just shy of 6'-2". I always describe my
self as freakishly long-torso/short inseam. Would be interesting if your
more "normal" proportions confirm this, though. I have three 60cm
Rivendells (Ram / Quickbeam / All Rounder) which all fit pretty darn well.
All have roughly the same (perfect) standover height, but progressively
longer top tubes. Unlike you, I like the longest best though
Another question: Do you find yourself "between" sizes on other Rivendell
models? I do. For instance, (not having tried either) I really think I'm
squarely between the 58 & 61 Atlantis, and the 54 & 58 Hunquapillar. Which
is part of why is I've been hoping that this bike was going to work: A
fat, 700c Rivendell in *MY* size.
FWIW, I don't think I'd worry about selection in 650b tires any more,
given the clearance that this model will likely have and the abundance of
mountain bike tires out there. I worry more about getting an
ideal fit..... but I fear, once again, that I'm going to fall in the
middle. Maybe the new Joe Appaloosa, if it has similar clearance and is
truly based on stretching the existing Sam Hillborne?????!!!!!!! A 58
Sam could be just about right......
Crossing my fingers.

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
I prefer a short top-tube but I'm worried about how much seatpost will be
showing. I don't mind a lot of seatpost if the top-tube is sloped like a
modern MTB. Riv's 2/6 degrees just won't work with a lot of seatpost.
Actually, my primary concern is that I already have a set of Rich Lesnik
built 700c wheels. I wouldn't mind having a set of 26" wheels built, and
in fact, that's part of my tentative plan, because I know I like them and
the tire selection for my riding style is good. 650B is an unknown
quantity and I'm afraid I might be limited by tire selection.
This is a 53.5 cm bike with the seatpost at the appropriate height for
me. It's hideous.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qlJY1HqdzIM/VHulu_VU0fI/AAAAAAAAADI/UNmEagrqRCQ/s1600/IMG_0774.JPG>
And this is a 50cm.
<https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QD61-BVYSYc/VHul3axTnEI/AAAAAAAAADQ/EwlkBuHBJSw/s1600/0000000000000%2BRockhopper%2B%284%29.JPG>

Post by Goshen Peter
I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm
afraid on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all
Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow!
Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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[dougP]

Chris:

Just for some more data points, I'm around 5'10" with an 85 cm PBH, and my
seat around 75 cm, on a 58 cm Atlantis with 38 mm Soma C-lines. I've also
used 40 mm Schwalbe Marathons. I would not ride anything bigger & could in
fact ride a 56 cm Atlantis. Hugh has a 56 shod with I believe 2.1" wide x
26" tires. We've ridden each others bikes and agree that, while it's
close, the 56 has slightly more stand over than the 58. Hoping this helps
in your frame size cogitations.

dougP

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
Keith,
I'm just shy of 6' tall and I've always thought of myself as short legged
and longer torso'ed but I'm no longer sure that is accurate. My 1983 MTB
has a seat-tube of 57.5cm and a S.O. of 83 and I'm perfectly comfortable
riding it. In fact, I like how little seat-tube is showing and how easy it
is to get the handlebars high, even with a very short quill stem. Another
bike has about a 57cm seat-tube and 84cm S.O. and I can ride it but
wouldn't want to go any taller. My saddle height might be closer to 74cm
as I've recently realized that the one I set at 75cm has a lot of padding I
probably compress, My much flatter, less padded saddle sits at less than
75cm from the BB.
I've never ridden a Rivendell but I've looked at the geo charts of the
I would ride a 54cm Hunqapillar. No question about it but the tires I
would run would put the S.O. higher than I would want for anything rougher
than smooth dirt. The next highest size would be way too big for me.
On the Atlantis I think the 56cm would be the best height for me but given
my experience with my other two bikes, I could ride a 58cm. The main
appeal of the Atlantis for me is the 26" wheels so that would preclude the
58cm, regardless.
I was thinking that maybe the 59cm Clem might be right for me but when
Grant said up to 95 PBH, I pretty much counted it out. That's a huge jump
and I'm thinking the 52 has to be the right size for me but it still sounds
too small.
The three framesets I'm currently considering are the Surly LHT (56cm/26"
wheels), Troll (18") and Ogre (18"). The LHT would be just the right size
although I might be able to stretch onto a 58cm. The Troll and Ogre will
have a ton of seat post showing but that's normal for that type of bike and
the extreme angle of the top-tube would make it very, very easy to get my
handlebars where I want them. Plus, I really like the way MTB's ride. I'm
currently riding a 26" wheel bike that is comparable in front-end geometry
to the 26" LHT and it's a little too twitchy for me, even with Big Apples.
I am coming off 3 weeks of riding an 83 MTB with 80 mm of Trail, though!
I test rode a stock 26" LHT and the 26" wheels with 1.5" tires were just
too twitchy for my tastes. I had thought maybe MTB bars and 55mm tires
would fix that but my current bike with similar front geometry shows me
that's not the case.
I'm always on the lookout for a medium (18") Troll, Ogre or Karate Monkey
with a saddle set at 75cm so I can see what the proportions look like and
just his weekend a guy posted a Troll that fit the bill. It doesn't look
too bad and given the Ogre has the same length seat tube, it should look
the same.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-18B1ZYRq_fA/VHvZghlZiJI/AAAAAAAAADg/EHSp-JwyoRs/s1600/Medium%2BTroll%2Bwith%2B75cm%2Bsaddle%2B001.jpg>

Post by iamkeith
Chris,
If that Trek is a 52, the seatpost actually looks just about right.....
for the era it was made. Funny how, once you know better, those old bikes
just don't seem right anymore. Another funny thing though is that a lot of
people still jack the post up even further when they take photos to share,
because they still think that the head-down, NORBA style looks authentic.
So it probably only looks hideous to you.
You and Peter now have me wondering, though, as we all three seem to be
about the same size (87 PBH, 75.5cm saddle height). I had been expecting
that the 59 was going to be a good fit for me, but I'm not so sure after
Grant's comments above. If either of you don't mind answering, I'm
How tall are you, overall? I'm just shy of 6'-2". I always describe my
self as freakishly long-torso/short inseam. Would be interesting if your
more "normal" proportions confirm this, though. I have three 60cm
Rivendells (Ram / Quickbeam / All Rounder) which all fit pretty darn well.
All have roughly the same (perfect) standover height, but progressively
longer top tubes. Unlike you, I like the longest best though
Another question: Do you find yourself "between" sizes on other
Rivendell models? I do. For instance, (not having tried either) I
really think I'm squarely between the 58 & 61 Atlantis, and the 54 & 58
Hunquapillar. Which is part of why is I've been hoping that this bike was
going to work: A fat, 700c Rivendell in *MY* size.
FWIW, I don't think I'd worry about selection in 650b tires any more,
given the clearance that this model will likely have and the abundance of
mountain bike tires out there. I worry more about getting an
ideal fit..... but I fear, once again, that I'm going to fall in the
middle. Maybe the new Joe Appaloosa, if it has similar clearance and is
truly based on stretching the existing Sam Hillborne?????!!!!!!! A 58
Sam could be just about right......
Crossing my fingers.

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
I prefer a short top-tube but I'm worried about how much seatpost will
be showing. I don't mind a lot of seatpost if the top-tube is sloped like
a modern MTB. Riv's 2/6 degrees just won't work with a lot of seatpost.
Actually, my primary concern is that I already have a set of Rich Lesnik
built 700c wheels. I wouldn't mind having a set of 26" wheels built, and
in fact, that's part of my tentative plan, because I know I like them and
the tire selection for my riding style is good. 650B is an unknown
quantity and I'm afraid I might be limited by tire selection.
This is a 53.5 cm bike with the seatpost at the appropriate height for
me. It's hideous.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qlJY1HqdzIM/VHulu_VU0fI/AAAAAAAAADI/UNmEagrqRCQ/s1600/IMG_0774.JPG>
And this is a 50cm.
<https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QD61-BVYSYc/VHul3axTnEI/AAAAAAAAADQ/EwlkBuHBJSw/s1600/0000000000000%2BRockhopper%2B%284%29.JPG>

Post by Goshen Peter
I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm
afraid on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all
Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow!
Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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[Goshen Peter]

Keith, we have the same pbh but I am 5'11 with longish torso and short
arms, finding bikes that fit me is a pain . I was most recently riding a
56 bombadil. I am also in between on sizes. I wanted a Hunqapillar when
they came out but didn't want a yard of seatpost on the 54 and the 58 gave
me zero clearance. Same with 52/56 bombadil and 56/60(?) Sam, and the 58/61
Atlantis. The 60cm 650b Saluki would be a good fit but rare as hens teeth
and not nearly the tire clearance I would want. For me the perfect bike
would be a 55cm bombadil with a 60 cm TT and standover at around 84 with
Max tires. The 56 bombadil fit well in the TT but a tad too large to go big
rubber. A 58cm Sam/Joe appaloosa with clearance for 60s no fenders would
also be great so fingers crossed.

Post by dougP
Just for some more data points, I'm around 5'10" with an 85 cm PBH, and my
seat around 75 cm, on a 58 cm Atlantis with 38 mm Soma C-lines. I've also
used 40 mm Schwalbe Marathons. I would not ride anything bigger & could in
fact ride a 56 cm Atlantis. Hugh has a 56 shod with I believe 2.1" wide x
26" tires. We've ridden each others bikes and agree that, while it's
close, the 56 has slightly more stand over than the 58. Hoping this helps
in your frame size cogitations.
dougP

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
Keith,
I'm just shy of 6' tall and I've always thought of myself as short legged
and longer torso'ed but I'm no longer sure that is accurate. My 1983 MTB
has a seat-tube of 57.5cm and a S.O. of 83 and I'm perfectly comfortable
riding it. In fact, I like how little seat-tube is showing and how easy it
is to get the handlebars high, even with a very short quill stem. Another
bike has about a 57cm seat-tube and 84cm S.O. and I can ride it but
wouldn't want to go any taller. My saddle height might be closer to 74cm
as I've recently realized that the one I set at 75cm has a lot of padding I
probably compress, My much flatter, less padded saddle sits at less than
75cm from the BB.
I've never ridden a Rivendell but I've looked at the geo charts of the
I would ride a 54cm Hunqapillar. No question about it but the tires I
would run would put the S.O. higher than I would want for anything rougher
than smooth dirt. The next highest size would be way too big for me.
On the Atlantis I think the 56cm would be the best height for me but
given my experience with my other two bikes, I could ride a 58cm. The main
appeal of the Atlantis for me is the 26" wheels so that would preclude the
58cm, regardless.
I was thinking that maybe the 59cm Clem might be right for me but when
Grant said up to 95 PBH, I pretty much counted it out. That's a huge jump
and I'm thinking the 52 has to be the right size for me but it still sounds
too small.
The three framesets I'm currently considering are the Surly LHT (56cm/26"
wheels), Troll (18") and Ogre (18"). The LHT would be just the right size
although I might be able to stretch onto a 58cm. The Troll and Ogre will
have a ton of seat post showing but that's normal for that type of bike and
the extreme angle of the top-tube would make it very, very easy to get my
handlebars where I want them. Plus, I really like the way MTB's ride. I'm
currently riding a 26" wheel bike that is comparable in front-end geometry
to the 26" LHT and it's a little too twitchy for me, even with Big Apples.
I am coming off 3 weeks of riding an 83 MTB with 80 mm of Trail, though! I
test rode a stock 26" LHT and the 26" wheels with 1.5" tires were just too
twitchy for my tastes. I had thought maybe MTB bars and 55mm tires would
fix that but my current bike with similar front geometry shows me that's
not the case.
I'm always on the lookout for a medium (18") Troll, Ogre or Karate Monkey
with a saddle set at 75cm so I can see what the proportions look like and
just his weekend a guy posted a Troll that fit the bill. It doesn't look
too bad and given the Ogre has the same length seat tube, it should look
the same.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-18B1ZYRq_fA/VHvZghlZiJI/AAAAAAAAADg/EHSp-JwyoRs/s1600/Medium%2BTroll%2Bwith%2B75cm%2Bsaddle%2B001.jpg>

Post by iamkeith
Chris,
If that Trek is a 52, the seatpost actually looks just about right.....
for the era it was made. Funny how, once you know better, those old bikes
just don't seem right anymore. Another funny thing though is that a lot of
people still jack the post up even further when they take photos to share,
because they still think that the head-down, NORBA style looks authentic.
So it probably only looks hideous to you.
You and Peter now have me wondering, though, as we all three seem to be
about the same size (87 PBH, 75.5cm saddle height). I had been expecting
that the 59 was going to be a good fit for me, but I'm not so sure after
Grant's comments above. If either of you don't mind answering, I'm
How tall are you, overall? I'm just shy of 6'-2". I always describe
my self as freakishly long-torso/short inseam. Would be interesting if
your more "normal" proportions confirm this, though. I have three 60cm
Rivendells (Ram / Quickbeam / All Rounder) which all fit pretty darn well.
All have roughly the same (perfect) standover height, but progressively
longer top tubes. Unlike you, I like the longest best though
Another question: Do you find yourself "between" sizes on other
Rivendell models? I do. For instance, (not having tried either) I
really think I'm squarely between the 58 & 61 Atlantis, and the 54 & 58
Hunquapillar. Which is part of why is I've been hoping that this bike was
going to work: A fat, 700c Rivendell in *MY* size.
FWIW, I don't think I'd worry about selection in 650b tires any more,
given the clearance that this model will likely have and the abundance of
mountain bike tires out there. I worry more about getting an
ideal fit..... but I fear, once again, that I'm going to fall in the
middle. Maybe the new Joe Appaloosa, if it has similar clearance and is
truly based on stretching the existing Sam Hillborne?????!!!!!!! A 58
Sam could be just about right......
Crossing my fingers.

Post by 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
I prefer a short top-tube but I'm worried about how much seatpost will
be showing. I don't mind a lot of seatpost if the top-tube is sloped like
a modern MTB. Riv's 2/6 degrees just won't work with a lot of seatpost.
Actually, my primary concern is that I already have a set of Rich
Lesnik built 700c wheels. I wouldn't mind having a set of 26" wheels
built, and in fact, that's part of my tentative plan, because I know I like
them and the tire selection for my riding style is good. 650B is an
unknown quantity and I'm afraid I might be limited by tire selection.
This is a 53.5 cm bike with the seatpost at the appropriate height for
me. It's hideous.
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qlJY1HqdzIM/VHulu_VU0fI/AAAAAAAAADI/UNmEagrqRCQ/s1600/IMG_0774.JPG>
And this is a 50cm.
<https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QD61-BVYSYc/VHul3axTnEI/AAAAAAAAADQ/EwlkBuHBJSw/s1600/0000000000000%2BRockhopper%2B%284%29.JPG>

Post by Goshen Peter
I am the same size as you Chris and am wondering the same thing. I'm
afraid on a 52 the tt will be too short for my taste.

Post by Jim D Massachusetts
Any pictures? Jim D Massachusetts

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all
Rivs are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow!
Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone

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[Surlyprof]

To chime in some additional data, I'm 5'10.5" tall with an 85 PBH. I fit a
55cm Sam perfectly with the seat at 74cm from the center of the cranks.
Felt great during an extended test ride. I've also tried a 54cm
Hunqapillar that felt good and, to my surprise, a 58 Homer. All of them
felt good with what I would consider a road bike-like standover. I ride a
19" Soma Groove and, even though there is a decent amount of seatpost
showing, the standover is not much more than the Sam and Hunq. I assume
this is due to the higher bottom bracket. I also used to own a 2005
Bianchi Veloce that was a virtual 59. They called it that because it had a
sloping top tube like the Sam. It actually had better standover than the
Groove. If I was doing some crazy mountain riding, I might want a lower
standover but, at this point in life, I'm digging the older style mountain
bike fit. The handlebars on the Groove are at least 2" above the saddle
and the Sam I tried was about the same. I'm contemplating the 52 Clem but
I wasn't sure how the height would shift when going down to a 650b wheel.
I'll probably still go with the Sam when the finances allow. I think it
is a truly beautiful bike. I understand why Brooks likes to use it in
their trade shows and as one of their "Bikes of Distinction"
http://www.brooksengland.com/curiosities-and-friends/bikes-of-distinction/touring-expedition/130219_100047_364/

John

Post by James Warren
It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs
are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like.
-Jim W.
Sent from my iPhone