[RBW] Rain Gear

[A CT Cyclist]

Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Jay Lonner]

Well I'm from the Pacific NW, so I basically have a Ph.D. in rain. Here's
my take, after many years of commuting by bike.

I'm not a big fan of so-called waterproof/breathable jackets. They just
don't live up to the hype. They don't breathe particularly well in humid
environments, because there's not enough of a moisture gradient to drive
water vapor through the membrane. Also, after a few years, the durable
water repellent finish wears off, and while there are products that can
help restore this, in my experience it's never as good as new. So don't get
caught up in buying the latest miracle fabric.

It's much more important, I think, to get a jacket with lots of ventilation
options - pit zips, pocket zips, and a flap on the back. Burley used to
make a good cycling-specific jacket, but has since stopped production. I've
heard Showers Pass described as a sort of spiritual successor to Burley,
but I've never owned one myself.

Because of my frustration with modern waterproof/breathable fabrics I
actually bought one of Riv's Ventile-ish cycling jackets when they came out
last year. It's good - I like it. I am surprised at how well it sheds
water, and I think it breathes better then Gore-Tex and the like. I wish it
had pit zips, but I'm happy with the purchase. I think it will last a long
time.

For me, the real key to managing internally generated moisture is to not
get too hot and sweaty in the first place. I usually wear a Smartwool
t-shirt under my jacket, with no additional insulating layers. This means
that I start my commute a little chilly, but within 10 minutes I'm warmed
up enough to be comfortable. I rarely wear actual rain paints; I prefer a
pair of very lightweight nylon pants that breathe well and aren't
waterproof at all. But they dry very quickly and help keep me from
overheating. Once I arrive at my destination I change into something nicer,
if needed.

I actually have an easier time staying dry and comfortable in the rain than
I do when the weather is hot and humid.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Chris Chen]

Seconded to "underdressing" when wearing any rain gear.

My J&G jacket has done wonders, is made in Oregon, but it's about two (or
three?) years old so I'm looking to replace it. I rarely wear rain pants,
but often quick-dry fabrics and wool (which stays comfy even when it gets
damp) are super handy.

You might get into a cape, but just be aware that capes don't breathe at
all either, and they're effectively sails, so...

Post by Jay Lonner
Well I'm from the Pacific NW, so I basically have a Ph.D. in rain. Here's
my take, after many years of commuting by bike.
I'm not a big fan of so-called waterproof/breathable jackets. They just
don't live up to the hype. They don't breathe particularly well in humid
environments, because there's not enough of a moisture gradient to drive
water vapor through the membrane. Also, after a few years, the durable
water repellent finish wears off, and while there are products that can
help restore this, in my experience it's never as good as new. So don't get
caught up in buying the latest miracle fabric.
It's much more important, I think, to get a jacket with lots of
ventilation options - pit zips, pocket zips, and a flap on the back. Burley
used to make a good cycling-specific jacket, but has since stopped
production. I've heard Showers Pass described as a sort of spiritual
successor to Burley, but I've never owned one myself.
Because of my frustration with modern waterproof/breathable fabrics I
actually bought one of Riv's Ventile-ish cycling jackets when they came out
last year. It's good - I like it. I am surprised at how well it sheds
water, and I think it breathes better then Gore-Tex and the like. I wish it
had pit zips, but I'm happy with the purchase. I think it will last a long
time.
For me, the real key to managing internally generated moisture is to not
get too hot and sweaty in the first place. I usually wear a Smartwool
t-shirt under my jacket, with no additional insulating layers. This means
that I start my commute a little chilly, but within 10 minutes I'm warmed
up enough to be comfortable. I rarely wear actual rain paints; I prefer a
pair of very lightweight nylon pants that breathe well and aren't
waterproof at all. But they dry very quickly and help keep me from
overheating. Once I arrive at my destination I change into something nicer,
if needed.
I actually have an easier time staying dry and comfortable in the rain
than I do when the weather is hot and humid.
Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

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[Ron Mc]

I have the highest tech, lightest weight Gortex 3 technical shell and it
works great, just not on a bike. I was wearing it between buildings in a
monsoon at a client's plant last week.
On a bike you want a bike-specific poncho - you need that tent factor to
have moving air and keep you cool. I give a big thumbs-up to Vaude
Valdipino poncho.

Post by Jay Lonner
Well I'm from the Pacific NW, so I basically have a Ph.D. in rain. Here's
my take, after many years of commuting by bike.
I'm not a big fan of so-called waterproof/breathable jackets. They just
don't live up to the hype. They don't breathe particularly well in humid
environments, because there's not enough of a moisture gradient to drive
water vapor through the membrane. Also, after a few years, the durable
water repellent finish wears off, and while there are products that can
help restore this, in my experience it's never as good as new. So don't get
caught up in buying the latest miracle fabric.
It's much more important, I think, to get a jacket with lots of
ventilation options - pit zips, pocket zips, and a flap on the back. Burley
used to make a good cycling-specific jacket, but has since stopped
production. I've heard Showers Pass described as a sort of spiritual
successor to Burley, but I've never owned one myself.
Because of my frustration with modern waterproof/breathable fabrics I
actually bought one of Riv's Ventile-ish cycling jackets when they came out
last year. It's good - I like it. I am surprised at how well it sheds
water, and I think it breathes better then Gore-Tex and the like. I wish it
had pit zips, but I'm happy with the purchase. I think it will last a long
time.
For me, the real key to managing internally generated moisture is to not
get too hot and sweaty in the first place. I usually wear a Smartwool
t-shirt under my jacket, with no additional insulating layers. This means
that I start my commute a little chilly, but within 10 minutes I'm warmed
up enough to be comfortable. I rarely wear actual rain paints; I prefer a
pair of very lightweight nylon pants that breathe well and aren't
waterproof at all. But they dry very quickly and help keep me from
overheating. Once I arrive at my destination I change into something nicer,
if needed.
I actually have an easier time staying dry and comfortable in the rain
than I do when the weather is hot and humid.
Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Michael Hechmer]

On the other side of the continent I agree. The real problem isn't staying
dry, it's not overheating. In commuting it's always best to start out
feeling chilly. In warm, rainy weather I finally decided a simple wool
jersey was best. When it got cooler having a light wool jacket strapped to
my Barley Bag was appreciated. Down in the 40s or below I liked my well
ventilated Rain Showers II jacket.

Michael

Post by Jay Lonner
Well I'm from the Pacific NW, so I basically have a Ph.D. in rain. Here's
my take, after many years of commuting by bike.
I'm not a big fan of so-called waterproof/breathable jackets. They just
don't live up to the hype. They don't breathe particularly well in humid
environments, because there's not enough of a moisture gradient to drive
water vapor through the membrane. Also, after a few years, the durable
water repellent finish wears off, and while there are products that can
help restore this, in my experience it's never as good as new. So don't get
caught up in buying the latest miracle fabric.
It's much more important, I think, to get a jacket with lots of
ventilation options - pit zips, pocket zips, and a flap on the back. Burley
used to make a good cycling-specific jacket, but has since stopped
production. I've heard Showers Pass described as a sort of spiritual
successor to Burley, but I've never owned one myself.
Because of my frustration with modern waterproof/breathable fabrics I
actually bought one of Riv's Ventile-ish cycling jackets when they came out
last year. It's good - I like it. I am surprised at how well it sheds
water, and I think it breathes better then Gore-Tex and the like. I wish it
had pit zips, but I'm happy with the purchase. I think it will last a long
time.
For me, the real key to managing internally generated moisture is to not
get too hot and sweaty in the first place. I usually wear a Smartwool
t-shirt under my jacket, with no additional insulating layers. This means
that I start my commute a little chilly, but within 10 minutes I'm warmed
up enough to be comfortable. I rarely wear actual rain paints; I prefer a
pair of very lightweight nylon pants that breathe well and aren't
waterproof at all. But they dry very quickly and help keep me from
overheating. Once I arrive at my destination I change into something nicer,
if needed.
I actually have an easier time staying dry and comfortable in the rain
than I do when the weather is hot and humid.
Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

What I wear varies with the temperature. If it's warm enough for shorts and a T-shirt and sandals, I use a rain cape. Sail be damned, it's cool enough. If it's shorts & jacket weather, a rain jacket (Burley) with pit zips. If it's colder than that, I add rain pants. There are son lovely high-tech products, but I'm poor and cheap.

[Deacon Patrick]

+1 for ventile. If Rivendell's offering isn't your thing, I highly
recommend Hilltrek in Scotland. Brilliant stuff that works and is hearty
and withstands deluges, wind, etc. Get their Cotton Analogy for the most
waterproof/breathable option in existence (I've tried nearly all the
concepts out there). I own and love this:
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/Liathach-Cotton-Analogy-Extreme-Smock-.html,
but if you don't need the side zips and extra pockets, then this is less
coinage:
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Foinaven_Cotton_Analogy__Smock.html
Ventile/Cotton Analogy breathes nearly as well as your cotton shirt
(because it is untreated cotton) but water does not get through. The liner
in the cotton analogy mimics fur, using capillary action to force any and
all moisture away from your body, including sweat (not just vapor, but
liquid). Brilliant stuff!

With abandon,
Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

Post by Deacon Patrick
+1 for ventile. If Rivendell's offering isn't your thing, I highly
recommend Hilltrek in Scotland. Brilliant stuff that works and is
hearty and withstands deluges, wind, etc. Get their Cotton Analogy for
the most waterproof/breathable option in existence (I've tried nearly
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/Liathach-Cotton-Analogy-Extreme-Smock-.html,
but if you don't need the side zips and extra pockets, then this is
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Foinaven_Cotton_Analogy__Smock.html
Ventile/Cotton Analogy breathes nearly as well as your cotton shirt
(because it is untreated cotton) but water does not get through. The
liner in the cotton analogy mimics fur, using capillary action to
force any and all moisture away from your body, including sweat (not
just vapor, but liquid). Brilliant stuff!

Ventile is great when it's chilly out. Definitely not for a summer rain
when it's 80 or 90 degrees out, though.

[Matt Beebe]

Wool flannel shirts, wool undewear and socks. Twill dries fairly quickly
compared to other cotton, so it's OK for pants. I don't like any kind of
'shell' jackets because i find them suffocating no matter how many vents
you add, so I'd rather just be wet and wearing wool. Shells are OK for
camping, or when you're not moving anymore after a ride. Also I find that
regular moccasin type boat shoes, since they're kinda minimal, dry quickly
too.

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

I'm from the San Francisco bay area so I don't know if I have enough
credibility to offer my suggestion. Nevertheless, we do have about a month
or two of cold (almost freezing to high 40°F) rain during the winter months
(or at least expect to have; didn't happen last season). It is also
pertinent to state that our rain here isn't tropical-heavy. It is
consistently light-to-moderate and light winds can be expected. I should
also state that my regular wet-weather bike have full fenders, front and
rear.

I too have all sorts of high-tech jackets and pants but like others have
similarly found, it's your own sweat that'll do you in. Even the vaulted
Showers Pass jackets with the pit zips didn't really do it for me. What I
found works best is a bike poncho. I had a crappy semi-disposable one that
I used as proof-of-concept and when that worked, I splurged on the
Rivendell's Grunden <http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/ar1.htm> version
(even bought the hat <http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/ar4.htm>).

To be clear, you'll look like a dork dressed in the "flying tent". But
you'll be a dry dork. Most of the time, I don't even have to cover my
Brooks saddle because the poncho keeps everything dry, even at traffic
lights. And even though a poncho isn't airy like nothing at all, it's still
noticeably better than any GoreTex jacket I have. You may need waterproof
boots if you ride faster than about 10 or 12mph. I think the Rivendell
splats <http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/ar3.htm> and shinguards
<http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/ar5.htm> are intended as companion
devices, but I just put on my Showers Pass pants
<https://www.showerspass.com/product-category/pants> and shoe covers
<https://www.showerspass.com/product-category/accessories-1> to avoid
diving deeper into dorkdom.

You can wear your normal clothes over all these, and it doesn't take 10
minutes to degown from your super-hardman outfit when you're at your
destination. As a bonus, you will also have a ready halloween costume as
the Gorton fisherman or Paddington bear (don't ask). Don't underestimate
this as we'll be in October tomorrow. ;)

[Lungimsam]

For warm weather rain riding, I'm almost at the point where I want to wear Keen waterproof sandals and just get wet everywhere else. Throw a shower cap on the Brooks and just change clothes when I get home. Though I will say that so far my Gore Tech shoe covers worked well on the last rain ride I was on.

I also sweat too much under rainwear. The last poncho ride I took had my hands getting caught up in the poncho while moving hands around on the drops. Dangerous. After the 25? Mile ride I was soaked anyway, saddle wet too as I kept finding myself sitting on the tail of the poncho.

So I am thinking Keen waterproof sandals, shower cap on Brooks. Wool clothes can be changed when I get home. Everyone else I saw riding that day was in regular clothes looking like they didn't mind the soaking.
As for wet weather in the cold months, you'll have to ask a Randonneur. I haven't figured that one out yet.

[Philip Kim]

Best rain jacket I ever wore for rain was POC Rain jacket, nice and bright
orange for cars to see you. Highly breathable and light, but very
expensive. In the end, I sold it and bought a Patagonia Torrent Shell for
and a Columbia Watertight II. They work well enough, and don't scream
attention when I go out for drinks at the bar, etc.

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm confused. You sold the best cycling rain jacket you ever wore because
of the color, ideal for riding, when you're out for drinks?

With abandon,
Patrick

Post by Philip Kim
Best rain jacket I ever wore for rain was POC Rain jacket, nice and bright
orange for cars to see you. Highly breathable and light, but very
expensive. In the end, I sold it and bought a Patagonia Torrent Shell for
and a Columbia Watertight II. They work well enough, and don't scream
attention when I go out for drinks at the bar, etc.

[Montclair BobbyB]

+1 on Ventile (for cooler/cold weather... amazing how good this fabric
feels); Brooks (waxed cotton) rain cape for warm weather (like having a
well-ventilated tent for your bike... love this!!).

BB

Post by Deacon Patrick
I'm confused. You sold the best cycling rain jacket you ever wore because
of the color, ideal for riding, when you're out for drinks?
With abandon,
Patrick

Post by Philip Kim
Best rain jacket I ever wore for rain was POC Rain jacket, nice and
bright orange for cars to see you. Highly breathable and light, but very
expensive. In the end, I sold it and bought a Patagonia Torrent Shell for
and a Columbia Watertight II. They work well enough, and don't scream
attention when I go out for drinks at the bar, etc.

[Patrick Moore]

I used the waxed cotton Carradice (not Brooks) rain cape for a summer
monsoon season of commuting here in ABQ, NM and found it too heavy and hot.
Perhaps the Brooks is lighter? I find that the cheap Campmore flaps more
but isn't as hot. Temps here are usually in the upper 70s to mid 80s during
a rain -- once the sun goes behind the clouds the temperature can drop 10+
degrees.

Post by Montclair BobbyB
+1 on Ventile (for cooler/cold weather... amazing how good this fabric
feels); Brooks (waxed cotton) rain cape for warm weather (like having a
well-ventilated tent for your bike... love this!!).
BB

Post by Deacon Patrick
I'm confused. You sold the best cycling rain jacket you ever wore because
of the color, ideal for riding, when you're out for drinks?
With abandon,
Patrick

Post by Philip Kim
Best rain jacket I ever wore for rain was POC Rain jacket, nice and
bright orange for cars to see you. Highly breathable and light, but very
expensive. In the end, I sold it and bought a Patagonia Torrent Shell for
and a Columbia Watertight II. They work well enough, and don't scream
attention when I go out for drinks at the bar, etc.

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[Deacon Patrick]

It's perhaps worth repeating for those new to the rainwear discussion since
we last had it that "breathable" waterproof/repellent modern fabrics worn
at aerobic levels of activity (regardless of outside temperature) rapidly
feel like wet trash bags inside because they can not keep up with the
amount of vapor the body puts off (and can't handle liquid sweat at all) so
it rapidly because just as wet on the inside as if nothing was worn.
Ventile, on the other hand, breathes like a cotton t-shirt does, and if it
has a layer of "cotton analogy" that uses capilary action to push vapor AND
liquids out, it stays stunningly dry with high levels of activity even in
day long pouring conditions. This is critical when the temps are in the
20-60˚F range.

With abandon,
Patrick

Post by Montclair BobbyB
+1 on Ventile (for cooler/cold weather... amazing how good this fabric
feels); Brooks (waxed cotton) rain cape for warm weather (like having a
well-ventilated tent for your bike... love this!!).

[Steve Palincsar]

Post by Deacon Patrick
It's perhaps worth repeating for those new to the rainwear discussion
since we last had it that "breathable" waterproof/repellent modern
fabrics worn at aerobic levels of activity (regardless of outside
temperature) rapidly feel like wet trash bags inside because they can
not keep up with the amount of vapor the body puts off (and can't
handle liquid sweat at all) so it rapidly because just as wet on the
inside as if nothing was worn. Ventile, on the other hand, breathes
like a cotton t-shirt does, and if it has a layer of "cotton analogy"
that uses capilary action to push vapor AND liquids out, it stays
stunningly dry with high levels of activity even in day long pouring
conditions. This is critical when the temps are in the 20-60˚F range.

Ventile is great. Only thing is, Ventile's pretty hot to wear when it's
70 degrees or above.

[Patrick Moore]

Can anyone report on riding longer distances in rain wearing wool? I find
that wool jerseys stretch even when worn dry: mine grow an inch or more in
length after several hours of wearing. I wonder if a wool jersey ridden in
the rain would act somewhat like a cotton T shirt in this regard?

Me, after an initial impulse to abjure all synthetic jerseys, am glad I
kept most of them, since now with afternoon humidity soaring into the 30s
or more, and temperatures in the mid 90s, wool is icky (technical term of
the art). So is plastic, but it's not as icky. (Icky factor of .73, with
wool being 1.00.)

[Philip Kim]

Essentially, yes. The other reasons were that I wanted a jacket that could
fold into its own pocket, and the POC was more of a club/road riding
jacket, and got cool very quickly. This was a problem in colder seasons,
which is when I sold it. Now that it's summer, I wish I never sold it.
Lesson learned.

[David Spranger]

I use the breathable raincoat and pants from J&G cyclewear
(http://www.bicycleclothing.com/) . They keep me dry when cool to cold and
rainy. I don't mess with rain gear in the warmer months.

A big plug for the protection this gear has given me. I was hit hard in a
hit-and-run incident earlier this year. All my clothes, including the rain
gear, were cut off my body when the rescue team showed up. Though I had
many broken bones, everyone in the know commented on my lack of nearly any
road rash or skin abrasions. I give a lot of credit to the fabric that J&G
(USA made) uses.

David
Charlotte, NC

Post by A CT Cyclist
Hi, what does everyone wear when commuting in the rain? I'm looking for
something that I can wear with "normal" clothing. Something light that I
can layer under and not sweat profusely, ha ha.

[Garth]

Ventile is not completely 100 percent waterproof. It's also bulky ,
not exactly small packing if packable at all.

So called waterproof *and* breathable fabrics only exist as relatives .
A truly 100 percent waterproof fabric won't "breathe" , and a vapor
permeable fabric by it's nature of being permeable cannot be 100 percent
waterproof.

So to me, all arguments for a given philosophy are flawed no matter how
it's thought of .

There just isn't a perfect fabric . And while someone may say "it's
perfect for me" , they're really only settling for imperfection . True
Perfection is infallible and Absolute. Not found in a material world , no
matter all the "man" made inventions that have been are are to be .

So what's the solution of all solutions , Absolute ? It's not found
at all . . . . in fact inventions and searching only confirm a belief it
is not already Present ! Yes . . . . Present and at Hand .

[Deacon Patrick]

Garth, you are right: single layer ventile isn't waterproof. Double layer
and "Cotton Analogy" layers ventile are waterproof. Yes, they are
heavier/bulkier. They also replace the weight/bulk of a rain jacket and one
layer of warmer clothing, at least for me. I don't know what your
definition of "packable" is, but I pack mine all the time and take single
layer or cotton analogy depending on activity/duration, anticipated
conditions.

Steve said: "Ventile's pretty hot to wear when it's 70 degrees or above. "

At which point there is no need for a rain jacket. Just get wet and be
warm. Grin. That why I specified the temp range of up to 60˚F.

With abandon,
Patrick

Post by Garth
Ventile is not completely 100 percent waterproof. It's also bulky ,
not exactly small packing if packable at all.
So called waterproof *and* breathable fabrics only exist as relatives
. A truly 100 percent waterproof fabric won't "breathe" , and a vapor
permeable fabric by it's nature of being permeable cannot be 100 percent
waterproof.
So to me, all arguments for a given philosophy are flawed no matter how
it's thought of .
There just isn't a perfect fabric . And while someone may say "it's
perfect for me" , they're really only settling for imperfection . True
Perfection is infallible and Absolute. Not found in a material world , no
matter all the "man" made inventions that have been are are to be .
So what's the solution of all solutions , Absolute ? It's not found
at all . . . . in fact inventions and searching only confirm a belief it
is not already Present ! Yes . . . . Present and at Hand .